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Server 0.2

 
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nos



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Server 0.2 Reply with quote

Great work on the lastest release Laughing Very Happy
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! Did you install it?
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nos



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not yet, waiting for the GUI but wanted to say thanks for the continuing progress. Very Happy
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EdG



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can it run from usb? If i can get it to then i should be able to install on my desktop and give it a try. Must say binary compatibility would be an amazing feature for a server OS!
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Server and Desktop will not be binary compatible.
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, we think it is a basic feature. Smile We ran the same binaries, sometimes still from AtheOS, on Syllable for about eight years before we purged old compatibility libraries. There's no big reason we can't do the same for Server, and Builder has improved to be able to improve this support and even provide the compatibility libraries with new features to some extent.

It should be possible to run Server from a USB device if you know how. There's no installer yet, so you can change the manual installation steps to install on a USB device. You may have to adapt the GrUB configuration to start from USB, but it's not like Desktop where GrUB has to load USB drivers according to the Multi-Boot specification. It's all in the Linux kernel and Server has most kernel features enabled, so it should work, but we haven't tried it yet. If you get it to work, we would be very interested in any necessary changes.
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EdG



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh i often think if only half the libraries were available for linux then people would have less trouble with compatibility and breaking packages but thats not really to do with binaries.

Vanders: I was talking about my laptop Smile - runs the desktop Syllable so maybe my desktop can run the server syllable since i like trying new things out on it. Most of the things i use are booted from my pendrive via SysLinux so if i can get it working with that like most linux's (i even run gparted from that stick and distro installs via the net).
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're more right than you think. Library APIs are the weakest part in compatibility, weaker than command-line interfaces and certainly weaker than descriptive interfaces such as REBOL dialects and XML.

Desktop has an easier time maintaining library compatibility because it is actually incapable of producing shared libraries for many packages. Smile They're linked in statically, which is often a better choice, anyway. As soon as you're using shared libraries, you have to ship older versions when the API breaks, and this is not even always possible.

We have the ability to make more packages produce shared libraries now, and on Server shared libraries are usually built by default, but we think very hard about each case whether we want to enable them. On Server, we will probably actually go through some extra effort to disable some shared libraries that we don't want to take maintenance responsibility for.
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GregS



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:48 am    Post subject: REBOL 3 request Reply with quote

This is a cheeky request, as I am dying to get my hands on REBOL 3 is there any chance of making it available for the desktop as a minor update?

I downloaded Syllable desktop and was very well pleased (running that off a USB stick would be wonderful, currently running it under VMware).

For someone who only stumbled across Syllable this morning, I look forward to seeing how this project matures (thank Christ Linux was finally delinuxed - the absence of X11 was a delight).

Greg Schofield
Perth Australia
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! There are a few things to learn about Syllable when you first stumble upon it. Smile Desktop and Server are quite different products. Server uses the Linux kernel, but Desktop does not, so Desktop was not "delinuxed": it simply isn't Linux. And if I may say so, it wasn't thanks to Christ. We entirely take credit for it. Smile

Sorry, but I am not at liberty to distribute REBOL 3 - but you may want to hug your Christmas tree. Wink It will take some time before it will run on Syllable Desktop, though; we have to port it first.
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GregS



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[b]Kaj[/b] thanks for the informative reply, I will not clutter up the forum with naive posts. So I will make this my last post, unless I have something to actually contribute, and lurk in the background.

I will watch the development of Syllable closely, frankly I am fed up to the back teeth with XP and after several forays into Linux, I will not be repeating the experience any time soon.

I will however be looking at the server version ASAP, (servers are, I am afraid, outside my practical experience).

I believe there are many waiting to jump out of the MS boat as soon as there is a practical alternative, the Live CD and VMware sandbox are good transitional tools as Syllable is built up; and a very good way to prepare for such a jump.

A VMware file version of the server would be very much appreciated as I find this the quickest and safest way to assess things and there must be many others in the same position. Being new to the recent versions of VMware, making it myself is beyond my capabilities - I was impressed how well this worked compared to my experience some years back.

Admittedly my primary interest is to work within an OS that has a script based application environment. Hence my interest in REBOL 3 as it is further developed, especially its yet to be released graphic/GUI functions.

I cannot program, but I can script. Giving people like me control over their application environment, is I think a definite edge, and, if I understand the ORCA project, integrating the same language into traditionally compiled apps would compliment this nicely.

I may suggest in the future as REBOL 3 matures and is ported to the desktop, that the possibility of stripping back much of compiled GUI parts of the OS and replacing them with scripted GUIs (as communication glue and interface), might be considered as way producing a much more versatile OS environment, capable of being run as a pre-setup bare bones, or as a meaty, heavily optioned, computer environment -- to anything in between.

I believe a designed for purpose system, a sculptured OS, as well as application environment, has much to commend itself for the future.

All the best, and many thanks.

Greg Schofield
Perth Australia
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We agree.

There are two emulator images for Syllable Server 0.1 that can be used with several emulators, including VMware. They're announced on our front page and in the README for Syllable Server. We haven't updated them to version 0.2 yet.
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