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Project of the Month?
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hakim



Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="Kaj"]It's not a bug, it's a feature request, and it has been planned from the start, if you read our announcement in our [url=http://web.syllable.org/news/old-news.html]news archive[/url]. Our new download section has only been developed for half a year. Categorised downloads don't make much sense when you have few downloads, and it's a fair amount of work to implement them, so we will do them later.[/quote]
You got it wrong way. We are asking not for categorized downloads but that the links to those two pages would be clearly visible in the front page, which shouldn't be too hard to do.
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2207
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cipri"]...

Then I reported that the media server has problems with audio files that have a very short time duration. I gave a few examples, Arno confirmed it, but nothing changed. That means, even today, it can happen, that after a few chess matches with Puri, the media server breaks, if the bord sounds are turned on.
For example if you like to try this, you can take some sound files, that are about 1 second long, o shorter, put tem into coldfish, and let coldfish play the files in a endless loop. And then count the seconds till the media server breaks Very Happy

I didn't tested it, but I'm 99,9999% sure that these bugs are still there.

I understand that there are a lot more impotant thigs to do, and that there are to less developers. So of course I won't repet my bug reports, nor will I insist that they should be solved. Now that Arno seems to be.. gone... the probability is even smaller that bug reports related to gui and media sever are fixed.
So I can only home, that from Vanders body will grow another suplimentar 2 arms/hands that can replace Arno's.

Vanders with 4 hands, I think this is the way to go. Very Happy[/quote]

As far as I remember, Arno made a change based on your report that was supposed to fix this bug. If it didn't, it definitely makes sense to report that in the Bugs forum.
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2207
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="hakim"][quote="Kaj"]It's not a bug, it's a feature request, and it has been planned from the start, if you read our announcement in our [url=http://web.syllable.org/news/old-news.html]news archive[/url]. Our new download section has only been developed for half a year. Categorised downloads don't make much sense when you have few downloads, and it's a fair amount of work to implement them, so we will do them later.[/quote]
You got it wrong way. We are asking not for categorized downloads but that the links to those two pages would be clearly visible in the front page, which shouldn't be too hard to do.[/quote]

But they are, and you found them. What exactly do you mean?
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hakim



Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="Kaj"]But they are, and you found them. What exactly do you mean?[/quote]
I found applications by the link in OS news web page and resources in the message about mplayer and vlc. And some people were not so lucky:
[quote="skywaker"]4.. make somebody online package manager for download aplications from net .. when i want use some app i must [b]1 hour[/b] search on syllable pages...[/quote]
Why couldn't there be a link to "native software" in the top of the web page where links to home, faq, forum reside?
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2207
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="hakim"][quote="Kaj"]But they are, and you found them. What exactly do you mean?[/quote]
I found applications by the link in OS news web page and resources in the message about mplayer and vlc. And some people were not so lucky:
[quote="skywaker"]4.. make somebody online package manager for download aplications from net .. when i want use some app i must [b]1 hour[/b] search on syllable pages...[/quote]
Why couldn't there be a link to "native software" in the top of the web page where links to home, faq, forum reside?[/quote]

Because there's not enough space there. There's one main link to our downloads there, just like most other web sites have. From that "Get It" page you get all instructions, including a link to our extra software. That, again, has instructions about the different types of extra software we have, and links to the download lists.

The links to all these pages and lists are also on our front page, arranged together in the block "Software" in the navigation panel on the left, much like other web sites do it. Every page in that structure has instructions and links to the next level of the structure.

For the most important downloads there are also links in the "Things to Do" block which is placed in the top left corner so everyone should stumble upon it immediately, and in the "Statistics" block.

Why didn't you see those links on our front page and how do you propose to improve it?
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="Kaj"]From that "Get It" page you get all instructions[/quote]

Perhaps the quick fix is to rename "Get it" as "Download" or "Downloads" to make it crystal clear what is behind that link?
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hakim



Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="Kaj"]Because there's not enough space there. [/quote]
Remove Development which is clearly less useful because just points to same News with some posts stripped.

[quote="Kaj"]There's one main link to our downloads there, just like most other web sites have.
From that "Get It" page you get all instructions, including a link to our extra software.[/quote]
Ok, click "Get it" link and see how long does it take for you to find link to software. What's more, I really doubt that at least most people really read what's written there because they just find the link to the OS and forget about the page.

[quote="Kaj"]The links to all these pages and lists are also on our front page, arranged together in the block "Software" in the navigation panel on the left, much like other web sites do it. [/quote]
The left side is cluttered: there are too many blocks, less important things are on top of the more important ones, each block has too many links. Who can find anything in such a mess?

[quote="Kaj"]For the most important downloads there are also links in the "Things to Do" block which is placed in the top left corner so everyone should stumble upon it immediately, and in the "Statistics" block.[/quote]
Do you honestly believe that "Statistics" and "Subprojects" blocks are more important than "Software"? Also the Software section is clearly messed up.
And the right side of the web page imho could have MAJOR improvements too.

[quote="Kaj"]Why didn't you see those links on our front page and how do you propose to improve it?[/quote]
I think I have answered this one. Anyway, I think there could be another thread were we could discuss how things could be arranged and what could be removed from the front page.
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2207
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="Vanders"][quote="Kaj"]From that "Get It" page you get all instructions[/quote]

Perhaps the quick fix is to rename "Get it" as "Download" or "Downloads" to make it crystal clear what is behind that link?[/quote]

I left the name as Get It, because Downloads doesn't cover it. The instructions for the Premium CD and link to our shop are also in there. That's also why I named the block in the navigation panel Software instead of Downloads.
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2207
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: my vote is Reply with quote

[quote="hakim"][quote="Kaj"]Because there's not enough space there. [/quote]
Remove Development which is clearly less useful because just points to same News with some posts stripped.[/quote]

The development site is a quite different site with a lot more different content. I agree that the link in the top bar is not very important, but removing it doesn't solve the problem, because the applications list is not our only software page: there are six of them. The extra link we're talking about is a recommendation and the best place to add those is the Things to Do block, so I'll do that.

[quote="hakim"][quote="Kaj"]There's one main link to our downloads there, just like most other web sites have.
From that "Get It" page you get all instructions, including a link to our extra software.[/quote]
Ok, click "Get it" link and see how long does it take for you to find link to software. What's more, I really doubt that at least most people really read what's written there because they just find the link to the OS and forget about the page.[/quote]

Yes, I also suspect that's the problem, but we really can't help people who don't read. I just checked those pages before I answered you and I found that link right away.

[quote="hakim"][quote="Kaj"]The links to all these pages and lists are also on our front page, arranged together in the block "Software" in the navigation panel on the left, much like other web sites do it. [/quote]
The left side is cluttered: there are too many blocks, less important things are on top of the more important ones, each block has too many links. Who can find anything in such a mess?[/quote]

There are several sides to this issue. Yes, it's cluttered. But there is only so much we can do about it. We're a volunteer project on the Internet building a very broad system. Over a decade of development we have produced and collected a lot of information, by many contributors. The web site is a portal to that information. Some of it we control to some extent, but a lot of it is out of our hands. We are continuously trying to improve our control over the contents of the site, and we are going to great lengths for it. This is the best we can do right now. It's not a mess: a lot of thought has gone into its organisation. Still, we will make more improvements in the future, such as that extra download suggestion.

[quote="hakim"][quote="Kaj"]For the most important downloads there are also links in the "Things to Do" block which is placed in the top left corner so everyone should stumble upon it immediately, and in the "Statistics" block.[/quote]
Do you honestly believe that "Statistics" and "Subprojects" blocks are more important than "Software"? Also the Software section is clearly messed up.
And the right side of the web page imho could have MAJOR improvements too.[/quote]

Yes I do. The Subprojects block is the main navigation for all our sites, so without it people would be lost. Without it, we definitely wouldn't be able to carry out your suggestion of removing the Development link from the top menu bar. The Statistics block is above the Software block because it changes regularly, so in this place it has a reasonable chance of being in view without the user having to scroll down, so you can always keep an eye on the data. It also contains more suggestions for downloads, like the Things to Do block, so I believe it is what you seem to want. The Software block is much longer, so if it were above other blocks it would completely obscure them for users who don't scroll down. Cutting items out would make that information unavailable. Most complaints we have had in the past were about missing information. You yourself just demanded extra links. We're a big and complex project, not a simple project producing one product that explains itself and that we can show one big download button for. What you consider important is not necessarily what most of our audience considers important.

Also, anything major is subject to our time constraints and our wish to have a life as well as a volunteer job.

[quote="hakim"][quote="Kaj"]Why didn't you see those links on our front page and how do you propose to improve it?[/quote]
I think I have answered this one. Anyway, I think there could be another thread were we could discuss how things could be arranged and what could be removed from the front page.[/quote]
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Jonas



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get back on topic again Smile

A small newbie project could be to take a look at the preference utility for assigning applications with mimetypes/files. I believe one could probably create a better och "easier-to-understand"-GUI than todays.
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Rohan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people kicked that hard to begin developing form scratch. I stay my plan to learn C++, but I think some examples on it with good comments and descriptions what's that's all do maybe really helpful in attraction new programmers.

I think we don't get new developers only because we create news and publication not on those placed. All publication about Syllable was on software-news portals. And no more. I didn't see any publication on programmers sites.

When you want to find builders you do not go to the supermarket, right? And here same if we want more developer me should take direction to software developers sites.
There no big reason to find more users, when there developers is much needed. More tools for developers, _probably_ at pressent moment will be good to include stuff for developers in distrib. After some time it can be again distributed separately. Not only for users good when system work out-of-the box. It's good also for developers. I understand that GCC too big, but now probably my suggestion have some reason.
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Morph
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 316
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rohan"]I stay my plan to learn C++, but I think some examples on it with good comments and descriptions what's that's all do maybe really helpful in attraction new programmers. [/quote]
I have a simple "Hello world" gui app with lots of comments, which you might find helpful: [url=http://www.maths.leeds.ac.uk/~awmorp/syllable/helloworld.cpp]find it here[/url].
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Rohan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know about it, but it's big way between hello world and more serious applications. If i not mistaken you did write it's for me few times ago.
I already uploaded it's on mine site.
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Morph
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 316
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, sorry I forgot Smile Anyway, maybe others will find it useful.
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2207
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rohan"]Some people kicked that hard to begin developing form scratch. I stay my plan to learn C++, but I think some examples on it with good comments and descriptions what's that's all do maybe really helpful in attraction new programmers.

I think we don't get new developers only because we create news and publication not on those placed. All publication about Syllable was on software-news portals. And no more. I didn't see any publication on programmers sites.

When you want to find builders you do not go to the supermarket, right? And here same if we want more developer me should take direction to software developers sites.
There no big reason to find more users, when there developers is much needed. More tools for developers, _probably_ at pressent moment will be good to include stuff for developers in distrib. After some time it can be again distributed separately. Not only for users good when system work out-of-the box. It's good also for developers. I understand that GCC too big, but now probably my suggestion have some reason.[/quote]

We have been focused on developers for half a decade and it has only grown the project very slightly, so we've begun targeting both groups.
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