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[suggestion] GUI upgrade ?
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forart.eu



Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: [suggestion] GUI upgrade ? Reply with quote

In the "[url=http://forum.syllable.org/viewtopic.php?t=1481]other 3ad[/url]" Kay claimed that Syllable [i]"aims to be the best operating system for the future"[/i].

If so, don't you think it's time to upgrade the GUI to a new, modern one ?

Personally I'm a [url=http://www.sharpe-shell.org/]SharpE[/url] lover (that, of course, is a Windows shell replacer but with a "BeOS taste" and was also defined [url=http://shell-shocked.org/article.php?id=48][i]"elagant, configurable, stable and fun"[/i][/url]), but I also found [url=http://www.skyos.org/?q=node/404]SkyOS' look[/url] very clean and modern: a mixture could be the best approach (to have an idea, imagine [url=http://www.sharpe-shell.org/e107_plugins/autogallery/Gallery/User%20Screenshots/cubeIX_white_theme_%5Bby_captain_herisson%5D.jpg]this theme[/url] and [url=http://www.skyos.org/images/6796_1.png]this[/url] GUI togheter...), IMHO.

I perfectly know that it's not a priority (many other functionalities should be more important in this stage), but - expecially after the Haiku alpha 1 release - may be a "quite easy" strategy to gain users and, more important, developers.

Hope that inspires... Rolling Eyes
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone produces a new GUI for Syllable, we'll certainly consider it.
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As with all things, talking about it wont produce results. If someone is willing to actually sit down and make those changes and provide patches, we'll talk about it.
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skywaker



Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: small vs. big changes Reply with quote

Better Gui? Syllable now needs fix some bugs like when one icon on desktop have long text then other icons have this some width of text like this icon with long.. there is not more lines of text.. its horible to copy mp3 with lont text.. Smile (this is not very funny) i think this is not hard to change for someone from developers who know syll api. this is what i dont like.. after we can do bigger change
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jaspras



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Kaj
[quote]
If someone produces a new GUI for Syllable, we'll certainly consider it.
[/quote]

To Kaj
I Would REALLY REALLY like to give it a shot!!!!

it would only require 2 things!
1. a way for the Windows to be transparent just so i can get the edges off from them, NOT translusent (allthough it would a nice plus)

2. Some kind of a theme engine specification... meaning how would it be best to do it.... in terms of software design..
(I have done some preliminary work on it...)

Button::Paint ()
{
themeEngine->Paint (this);
}
would the above be acceptable for instance?

[quote]
Personally I'm a SharpE lover (that, of course, is a Windows shell replacer but with a "BeOS taste" and was also defined "elagant, configurable, stable and fun"), but I also found SkyOS' look very clean and modern: a mixture could be the best approach (to have an idea, imagine this theme and this GUI togheter...), IMHO.
[/quote]

I believe we can do better than that...

[quote]
I perfectly know that it's not a priority (many other functionalities should be more important in this stage), but - expecially after the Haiku alpha 1 release - may be a "quite easy" strategy to gain users and, more important, developers.
[/quote]

True. Other things are ALOT more important right know but a nice looking face for syllable would spice things up!!!
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK John, give it a go! There are a few main things you have to realise, though:

- For inclusion in the base system, any contribution needs to fit Syllable very well. Use the native APIs and data formats, not bloat the system, such things.

- There is no man power, and certainly no woman power, to do anything for you. We can give advise on how to do things and integrate the results (as long as they're not hard to integrate), but that's it.

- An upgrade of the GUI is an intrusive thing. It requires changes throughout the system and applications, because there is no theming engine. Otherwise, the work will not be complete and consistency of the UI will suffer.
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jaspras



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]
OK John, give it a go! There are a few main things you have to realise, though:

- For inclusion in the base system, any contribution needs to fit Syllable very well. Use the native APIs and data formats, not bloat the system, such things.
[/quote]

OK only use Syllable native API.

[quote]
- There is no man power, and certainly no woman power, to do anything for you. We can give advise on how to do things and integrate the results (as long as they're not hard to integrate), but that's it.

- An upgrade of the GUI is an intrusive thing. It requires changes throughout the system and applications, because there is no theming engine. Otherwise, the work will not be complete and consistency of the UI will suffer.
[/quote]

OK Kaj i will give it a shot, one Question though.
This can be done in 2 ways.
1. I can simply change the existing drawing code of the controls to get a nice but unthemable looking GUI and will only need a gradient function inside os::View, but will that break anything?

2. Create a theme engine and draw everything in there, but wont that break everything?

what way is less intrusive?
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2202
Location: Friesland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

- Small changes are always better. Try to split your development in multiple usable steps to reach the goal.

- It's an old discussion within the project whether we need a theme engine or not. Without it, you would have to adapt Syllable's code just to fit your new design, but with a theme engine you would program it more flexibly. Personally, I don't see much harm in a theme engine, as long as it applies consistently throughout the system.
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jaspras



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]
- Small changes are always better. Try to split your development in multiple usable steps to reach the goal.
[/quote]

True.

[quote]
- It's an old discussion within the project whether we need a theme engine or not. Without it, you would have to adapt Syllable's code just to fit your new design, but with a theme engine you would program it more flexibly. Personally, I don't see much harm in a theme engine, as long as it applies consistently throughout the system.
[/quote]

Theme engine it is then.. Smile)
Thanks for the help.. i keep you posted and ofcourse ask questions... Smile)
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, good luck!

Try to keep the interfaces within Syllable the same as much as possible. That is, a theme engine should be as invisible as possible (in the code, of course; it would be very visible for the user Smile. It should mostly be an external setting that applications and most of the system shouldn't have to worry about.
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd suggest your starting point would be to move the Paint() methods for each Control into a separate library and then plumb that into libsyllable. It will show you if that approach is sensible and workable and highlight any problems. Once you have that working it's a short step to plugable "theme engine"s
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jaspras



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]
Cool, good luck!

Try to keep the interfaces within Syllable the same as much as possible. That is, a theme engine should be as invisible as possible (in the code, of course; it would be very visible for the user . It should mostly be an external setting that applications and most of the system shouldn't have to worry about.
[/quote]

Thanks Kaj

[quote]
I'd suggest your starting point would be to move the Paint() methods for each Control into a separate library and then plumb that into libsyllable. It will show you if that approach is sensible and workable and highlight any problems. Once you have that working it's a short step to plugable "theme engine"s
[/quote]

That's what i wanted to do, for the simple controls such as button, textview..etc. is easy for the composite is abit harder but i hope i can ask for advice..


PS. Where the hell is this "forart.eu" that started all of these... Confused
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forart.eu



Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jaspras"]PS. Where the hell is this "forart.eu" that started all of these... Confused[/quote]
Here me I am; sorry guyz, but I can't follow the discussion daily (i'm active in many other projects/forums)...

Ontopic.
I believe that GUI update needs at least 2 different stages:
1. new visual features implementation (#E-like disk usage bar next to icons, for example);
2. theming support;

Now we need do agree around what the GUI needs.
To me:

1. More features on the "always on top" upper bar (better if not fullwidth, IMHO):
- CPU/RAM usage meter;
- Audio volume meter/knob;
- Control panel access links/button;
- Multidesk switcher;
- Clock;
- ...

2. Disk usage meter next to disk icons;

3. SkyOS-like windows/bars look are really nice (is this a theming feature ?);

...

For example I don't believe that "3D desktop switcher"-like stuff are really useful, just resources hungry.

BTW, I believe that the keys should be simplicity, cleanness and completeness.
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Kaj
The Knights of Syllable


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's way beyond the scope of a theming engine already, but nevertheless good suggestions. Smile At this rate, I think John will find out very quickly what it's like to be overasked for features.
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jaspras



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]
That's way beyond the scope of a theming engine already, but nevertheless good suggestions. At this rate, I think John will find out very quickly what it's like to be overasked for features.
[/quote]

Thanks for understanding Kaj Smile)))

I think that what forart.eu really wants is not a better looking GUI ie. buttons, windows, window decos... etc. but a COMPLETE make over of the DESKTOP! and a bit more APPS,PLUGINS..

Dock plugings...
[quote]
- CPU/RAM usage meter;
- Audio volume meter/knob;
- Control panel access links/button;
- Multidesk switcher;
- Clock;
[/quote]

Desktop plugin-addin...
[quote]
2. Disk usage meter next to disk icons;
[/quote]


i will look into this one..
[quote]
3. SkyOS-like windows/bars look are really nice (is this a theming feature ?);
[/quote]


Desktop plugin.
[quote]
For example I don't believe that "3D desktop switcher"-like stuff are really useful, just resources hungry.
[/quote]


anyway i hope you like this concept...
[img]http://i34.tinypic.com/2eb6cs8.jpg[/img]
or
http://i34.tinypic.com/2eb6cs8.jpg
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