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Killing frozen processes

 
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F-Lexx



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:32 pm    Post subject: Killing frozen processes Reply with quote

How can I get rid of frozen applications? The output of the "ps" command and the contents of the "Processes" tab in System Information is kind of strange to me, since most applications have multiple threads. I tried killing the thread with the lowest PID (I think) of ABrowse once and that hang up the whole system.
Something in the vein of Linux' xkill would really come in handy...
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EdG



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xkill is a really dodgy application, i've never understood why its there really. So stupid and easy to mistakingly close something really important.

I'd favor something like windows 98's list of open programs, it makes more sense to most people than Linux or unix top and PS....... my dad has no clue when he sees XP's task manager. Normal people don't know what a process is! Definitely not a thread..........

You need to list running programs, not processes or threads because a particular thread is also pretty useless unless part of an application hangs, then what do you do? The application doesn't understand why it died and unless it is coded with defensive programming so that it can re-run whatever threads it creates - perhaps lots of overhead - then it is pointless killing parts of applications.

I don't know how to best do this, i would suggest something like windows xp alt tab - the graphical one which gives a picture of what is open - u have to install it as an xp addon but it shows the document that is open in the program not just a little icon. or the web page or whatever. This way a user can go - ah i know what that is and close it. Or if you want to be technical and not user friendly but add the feature JUST for advanced users then add a control + K button to kill any process that is shown on alt tab. That suggestion could cause false positives but i think with ctrl its safe. You could have this plus some kind of libsyllable feature that every application has whereby it simply runs a function if everything goes wrong, i have no idea whether this would work in practise or if i'm thinking along the right lines, but of course as human beings we know that if it can go wrong it will, and murphys law applies to all things. Don't forget you never know when something will break or what it will be used for, car exhausts just fall off if the pipe corrodes - i found this out on friday - if thats not a cool feature i don't know what is! ...

I'd rather something much better defined and easy to use and user friendly than xKill personally, but its probably not a difficult thing to port from linux / unix.

it would put me off if you could just press alt + k or something accidently closing an application...
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either pick the thread(s) you want to kill by the process name (The first column) in the Processes tab, or open a Terminal and use "kill_all". It's almost exactly the same as "killall" on Linux, I.e.

[code:1]
$ kill_all -TERM ABrowse
[/code:1]

will send SIGTERM to every ABrowse thread, or if that doesn't work

[code:1]
$ kill_all -KILL ABrowse
[/code:1]

will send SIGKILL.
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="EdG"]
I'd favor something like windows 98's list of open programs, it makes more sense to most people than Linux or unix top and PS....... my dad has no clue when he sees XP's task manager. Normal people don't know what a process is! Definitely not a thread..........
[/quote]

It might make sense to modify the Process tab in System Manager so it is a tree of available processes, with the process threads grouped under each process. That would allow you to kill an entire process or still pick individual threads if you needed too.
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EdG



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah that makes sense, and kill_all is a good name. I despise variable names where there's barely anything or nothing to distinguish words because its so confusing, one of the reasons why i like Syllable is its design - which is strangely well documented for an OS.
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Jonas



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I dont know if I agree that "kill_all" is a very good name. I would prefer something less dramatical like "stop_all" Smile
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F-Lexx



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh well, I couldn't wait for the response because Syllable froze and I had to hardware reboot my PC. And now, whenever I go into Syllable and try to reboot or power-off my PC from it, the system hangs. No BSOD, nothing.
My question is, can I do anything about this? Is there anything like fsck or scandisk in Syllable? Or is reinstalling my only option?
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="F-Lexx"]Oh well, I couldn't wait for the response because Syllable froze and I had to hardware reboot my PC. And now, whenever I go into Syllable and try to reboot or power-off my PC from it, the system hangs. No BSOD, nothing.
My question is, can I do anything about this? Is there anything like fsck or scandisk in Syllable? Or is reinstalling my only option?[/quote]

This isn't a filesystem problem, it's a bug (either ACPI or one of the drivers, I haven't decided yet). I've got the same problem here on my Dell GX280: sometimes it will hang during poweroff and the CPU fan will spin up.

What hardware do you have out of interest?
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F-Lexx



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, it doesn't do it all the time. Today I was able to both reboot and power-off my PC from Syllable.
I have an Acorp motherboard with an Intel i845 chipset, a Pentium 4, 1.4 ghz processor and 640 MB of SDRAM. My graphics card is a GeForce FX 5500.

And speaking of graphics, one more thing I found odd in Syllable: if I tried setting my monitor in a resolution like 1280x1024 at 85 hz (which I normally use in Windows or Linux) or 1600x1200 at 75 hz (which is also supported in the other OSs), the screen flickers every 1 or 2 seconds. Setting the screen at 1024x768 at 85hz produces no flicker, but it's not very comfortable, since I have a 19" CRT monitor (IiYama Vision Master 1451). Anyway, I didn't find this important enough to start a new thread... Just thought you people may want to know about it.
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Vanders
The Knights of Syllable


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="F-Lexx"]
I have an Acorp motherboard with an Intel i845 chipset, a Pentium 4, 1.4 ghz processor and 640 MB of SDRAM. My graphics card is a GeForce FX 5500.
[/quote]

I don't suppose it has a Broadcom Gigabit ethernet controller does it?
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F-Lexx



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it's a Realtek RTL8139 "family PCI fast ethernet" NIC.
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